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What should you do if your Google Ranking Falls and you lose all your traffic?

Posted By Darren Rowse 29th of November 2006 Search Engine Optimization 0 Comments

One of the most frightening things that can happen to a blogger making their living from blogging is when the traffic to their blogs dries up for one reason or another.

There are numerous reasons why this might happen ranging from being hacked, to having a server outage, to not backing up a blog and losing data etc

Another common reason for loosing traffic is when Google (or some other Search Engine) tweaks the way that they rank sites and your blog’s position for some (or all) keywords falls (or even disappears).

I’ve had a number of readers write to me in the last few weeks telling me that this has happened to them and in panic asking for advice.

Here is how I usually respond:

Firstly – I feel your pain
Suffering a major fall in traffic as a result of Google changing their ranking algorithm is not a pleasant thing and when you dig around a little you’ll find that most experienced webmasters have experienced it at one time or another. The first time it happened to me my traffic (and income) plummeted to a third of what it was in December of 2004. It hit me hard and almost knocked me out of blogging for money.

The second major hit that I’ve taken happened earlier this month when within the space of a couple of hours the traffic (and income) on my biggest blogs went to one tenth of normal levels and my blogs completely disappeared from Google’s index. Once again it was a fairly frightening experience (although I’d learnt a lot from last time it happened and have diversified my income quite a bit since).

What should you do when you lose your Google traffic?

OK – so you’re not alone – that might be a little comforting – but it doesn’t fix anything. What should you do? Here are a few things I advise out of my own experiences. This advice is written for people who have not being trying to game Google. If you engage in black hat SEO then it might be that you’ve been banned or penalized for doing so – I’m not aware of what you should do in this case. The following is probably more helpful for white hat SEO types who have had some bad luck:

1. Don’t Panic

I’ve seen a number of web masters completely lose it in the days following a loss of Google traffic. While I understand the temptation to panic – it doesn’t solve anything at all.

When I first lost traffic in Google back in 2004 my first reaction was to freak out and want to make big changes to my pages in an attempt to ‘fix’ things. The wise advice I received from experienced web masters was to calm down, take a day or two off and keep in mind that if I hadn’t been trying to game or trick Google that things would probably work out as in many cases traffic returns at some point as Google automatically re-corrects itself.

2. Wait

This is not easy to hear when your income seems to be falling through your fingers, but the main advice I was given two years ago was to not make any major changes to your blog for at least a month (maybe two). You might want to tweak things – but in many instances that I’ve come across Google does seem to reverse the de-indexing of quality sites that fall from their index (they seem to do updates in a series – adjusting things backwards and forwards along the way).

Back in 2004 my traffic returned after 6 nervous weeks. In my most recent experience my traffic began to return after 1 week (not quite as high as it had been previously but still improving). Waiting before making big changes gives Google a chance to correct itself.

Of course by advising bloggers to ‘wait’ I’m not saying ‘stop’ blogging. Keep posting and keep building your blog as if you had decent traffic as stopping can compound your SE traffic by making your blog appear inactive.

3. Analyze/Research

Take some time in the days and weeks following the change in Google to do some analysis and reflection upon your blog. I’m a big believer in learning from the tough times and using them to improve what you do. Check out webmaster forums like Digital Point’s Google Forum and Webmaster World’s Google Forum to see if others are experiencing similar things and to watch what experienced webmasters are advising.

You might also like to take a little time to do some basic SEO research (for example check out my recent post on SEO for for blogs) and see how your blog stacks up. Also take the opportunity to think about the overall direction of your blogging and to ask yourself some tough questions about where it’s going and how you’re doing it? Is it time to diversify your income more? Do you have a backup plan in terms of income? What other opportunities are there available to you if things don’t improve in your Google traffic? While your traffic might come back it’s worth considering what you’ll do if it doesn’t.

As part of this analysis of your blog I’d recommend signing up for Google Webmaster Tools. Get a sitemap installed (this will help Google crawl your blog better) and see if any errors are returned that might give a hint as to what the problem is with your site. Also check out Google’s Webmaster Help Center.

Lastly – don’t believe every SEO theory that people suggest. While I do advise subscribing to some of the above forums you should also be aware that a lot of rubbish gets hypothesized there also. Take your time on researching there and don’t make any major changes based upon that advice too quickly until the community there evaluates what is true and what is just an uneducated guess.

4. Improve Your Site

Once you’ve take a week or so to reflect without making any major changes – I’d suggest using the reindexing of your blog as motivation to improve your blog. Here’s some things I’d work on:

  • Fresh Content – Google loves sites with fresh original content – so instead of spending your time checking your stats and worrying about what might or might not happen – write some new quality posts for your blog. Perhaps start a fresh series of posts that might attract some new readers and income links. It’s very important not to let this setback slow down your posting frequency – keep writing!
  • Design/Backend Spring Clean – freshen up your blog’s design and simplifying it a little. One of the problems that many blogs have is that over time their bloggers add more and more things to sidebars and as they do the back-end code can become quite cluttered and jumbled. The more errors you have in your blog the harder it is for Search Engine bots to navigate it – so freshen things up, get rid of errors and simplify your code and it might help. Also search through your archives looking for and fixing broken links – this helps Google’s bots surf your blog better also.
  • Network – One of the things I did the first time I fell out of Google’s index was to spend more and more time building up relationships with other bloggers and webmasters in my niche. This had many benefits including finding out that others had had similar setbacks at the same time, the opportunity to exchange relevant links (either formally or by highlighting quality posts that you’ve written) and the potential for future joint projects.
  • SEO tweaks – As I say above – I wouldn’t make too many major changes to your blog too quickly but it might be worth looking at a few onsite SEO techniques (as outlined here). Are your title tags optimized? Are you using good keywords in the right positions? etc
  • Build Reader Loyalty – One of the realizations that many webmasters have when their SE traffic disappears is that their readership is quite one dimensional and SE reliant. Rather than getting down about the lack of traffic that you have, use the lull in traffic as an opportunity to work with the traffic that you DO have. Work on strategies to get readers coming back more regularly (I’ve previously written a series on this topic that starts here).

5. Diversify

I’ve come to learn through my issues with Google updates that it is important not to become too reliant upon any one aspect of blogging for an income. Don’t put all your eggs in the one basket because if you do you could be setting yourself up for a fall next time things don’t go your way. Here are a number of ways that you can diversify your blogging:

  1. New Sources of Traffic – Google traffic is a great thing when it works – but it’s easy to become reliant upon it. Consider what other sources of traffic you might attempt to build into your blog including other search engines (each SE has a different array of things that they look for when ranking your site), referral traffic from other sites and loyal readers.
  2. New Blogs – the first time I lost Google traffic I decided to diversify by adding new blogs to my business. I went a little overboard and at one stage was writing 20 of them. I wouldn’t advise going to that extreme (as it takes a lot of work) but consider adding one or two new blogs at a time. If I had my time over again I’d build new blogs that related to my first ones rather than starting completely blogs around completely new topics.
  3. New Income Streams – in a similar way to becoming reliant upon Google traffic it is easy to become reliant upon a single source of income on a blog. For example – in my early days of blogging I almost completely relied upon AdSense as an income source. Since then I’ve added a number of new income streams including other advertising programs, affiliate programs and even e-resources (more on the variety of income streams for bloggers here).
  4. Non Blogging Sources of Income – at different times over the last three or four years I’ve relied upon other income streams outside of blogging. Some have been related to online activities (such as my six figure blogging course), others have been bringing together bloggers in a managerial sort of way (like b5media), others have been consulting work around online entrepreneurship and others have been completely unrelated to blogging (I’ve take a variety of short term jobs on at different times to supplement online incomes). I think most webmasters do take on other work from time to time and in my mind it can be a smart thing to do during the lean times when things don’t quite go according to plan with your blogging.

6. Contact Google?

The first reaction for most webmasters when their Google traffic is to investigate how they can get in touch with Google about it. The problem with this is that Google are indexing many many millions of websites and as a result don’t make it easy for you to contact them regarding your problems (and I don’t blame them).

Perhaps the only suggestion that I can give for getting in touch with Google is to consider posting something in their Webmaster Help Forums and to sign your site up for their Google Webmaster Tools (and use Sitemaps). While this doesn’t give you direct communication with Google I do know that Google people track these forums and follow up links left there and that sitemaps is supposedly a good way to get your site regularly crawled by Google’s bots.

If you do have a contact at Google by all means get in touch with them and dig around looking for a way to get someone to look at your site – but unless you have luck or are pretty well known I’m not confident that this is going to get you far (but it can’t really hurt).

7. Reevaluate

After a month or two and if your blog hasn’t returned to it’s previous level of traffic (or at least improved significantly) I guess it might be time to change tack. It might be that you just have to start a new site or do a complete overhaul of your current one. My approach would probably be to keep a site much the same as it was unless there were glaring reasons for being de-listed in Google and start something new as it might be that you’ll get promoted again in future.

In Conclusion

The above advice comes as a result of a few years of building blogs and a lot of experimentation and talking with other web masters. There is of course a lot of other opinion going around on the topic. As I mention above – the SEO space is one that is filled with a lot of hypothesizing and at times controversy. People get very fired up about it and hold onto their theories strongly.

My approach with SEO is to build quality sites that people find useful, to know some basic SEO principles and to work hard at your sites. I find that in most cases the results of this are that your site will gradually rank better and better in Google and that even when the de-indexing comes from time to time that things generally turn back around.

I’m open to others suggestions and experiences on this topic however – feel free to share your own tips on getting highly ranked in Google again after losing your traffic below in comments.

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About Darren Rowse
Darren Rowse is the founder and editor of ProBlogger Blog Tips and Digital Photography School. Learn more about him here and connect with him on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn.
Comments
  1. How can one forget those dark days? Oh so frightening, I can almost feel the anxiety I had when I read this post.

    What I notice is that Google doesn’t dance as much as Yahoo does, however when Google does, it’s a havoc.

  2. To me..reader loyalty is very important because if my blog ranking fall I still have my reader. Link exchange also play important role and with that I can get back my traffic and rank back to normal. Anyway…great tips from you..thanks :)

  3. All excellent advice, Darren. As a professional in the industry, I couldn’t have said it better myself. All too often, people see a drop in rankings or search engine traffic and panic, which only makes the situation worse. Remain calm, stick to quality SEO practices, and the rankings should return.

  4. I’ve been there. It sucks. Email me if anyone else out there wants to discuss it further. The points above are great; but the human side to problem is a lot easier if you have a friend who understands this stuff…

  5. you do what you do best. it’s good to know that someone like you is around to help us newbies out when trouble comes. great advice!

  6. On a side note: Google is currently a monopoly, with no other first tier advertising/monetizing plans available for non-US publishers, this leaves a lot of publishers terrified and afraid to try adventurous monetizing methods…When Yahoo pops out, you’re gonna see a lot nicer attitude from the google represntatives (not that they’re not nice now, but i’m talking generally about banninations and that stuff)

    Allen.H

  7. […] Problogger.net has a great article on dealing with sudden dips in traffic which can affect your bottom line due to Google changes and other variables beyond your control. If you’ve been online for a while and experienced this due to an algorithm change or whatever this is a great read. I personally haven’t gone through this ordeal myself and even if I did, I work full time and am not dependent on the income from my sites at this point, but its still good information. […]

  8. veryv says: 11/29/2006 at 4:08 am

    Just now my AS income is dropped by 30-50% but my traffic is almost doubled. However I got some very good deals via TF and TextLinks ads (so I will not feel heat). It happened last year as well….

    Google keep changing search algorithm as well as AS algorithm. All you have to do is keep working on site and suddenly one day everything becomes normal. I am looking to put new theme for my blog.

    Cheers,

  9. If you’ve had the rankings and your site isn’t banned then for Google I’d say that the primary thing is to keep working on the site as usual but also build more links – and diversify the link building…

  10. Excellent advice. Diversity may have been key for me last week. I noticed quite the drop in traffic over the Thanksgiving holiday. Since many of my readers are from the U.S., I guess I wasn’t too surprised. However, I may try to put a little more effort into attracting non-U.S. readers – especially around American holidays. May be a good exercise for me to keep my rankings up as.

    Also, I redesigned my site. Hope you like it!
    Doug

  11. […] I think most webmasters do take on other work from time to time and in my mind it can be a smart thing to do during the lean times when things don’t quite go according to plan with your blogging. …Read more: here […]

  12. […] I think most webmasters do take on other work from time to time and in my mind it can be a smart thing to do during the lean times when things don’t quite go according to plan with your blogging. …Read more: here […]

  13. Darren great advice. I’ve been blogging for years and I know the crunch of losing traffic. and the relief when google fixes it again.

  14. […] Blogging Nov 28 at 3:44 pm by Thord Hedengren -I don’t have much to add here, Darren “ProBlogger” Rowse has a great post up on what to do if you lose pagerank with Google and the traffic drops. This is indeed (almost) life and death of many bloggers, and the issue is something to have nightmares about if you’re relying on search engine traffic. Which you probably are. […]

  15. Wow, a comprehensive guide in helping us recover from the nightmare of Google dropping our sites from their indexes. Waiting and ‘calling for a timeout’ is a good tip. The web is just so huge nowadays, it will definitely take some time for Google to re-crawl all the sites in the web.

    It will be a good time to reorganize and do some cleaning up.

    I learned a lot from this post, thanks Darren!

  16. It’s definitely important to build up other sources of traffic other than just search engines. Personally speaking Organic referral traffic should only make up about 20% of your total traffic.

  17. I get 0 traffic from Search Engines…

  18. It’s all great advice in theory, but still hard to accept in reality. One of my sites was a PR6 site and was downgraded to PR2 in the summer. Traffic stopped altogether. Fortunately, I never earned money on that site, so it’s not like I really lost anything but the traffic. But I had recently applied for Text-Link ads and was instantly approved.

    Imagine applying for text-link-ads and being rejected due to some Alexa or low PR ranking – and then you have to wait forever (they claim 3-6 months but I’m still waiting from May2006 rejections) before your site can re-apply. Now, imagine having a PR6 site instanly valued high and now nobody will advertise because it’s only a PR2 ranking. That’s the real world. I can’t get that price down to a reasonable value to attract any advertisers, and traffic is about 10% of what it used to be. Advertisers looking for sites like mine will remember that it is not worth any good value. And, with traffic levels down to 10% .. my stats only prove that.

    I don’t give up though and still plug away at a snail’s pace. I have no intention beefing it up 500% to get back 20% and instead am concentrating on my other sites. That’s probably the wrong decision, I know – but less stressful for me.

  19. I’ve definitely been here with Google. I have noticed that you can fluctuate pretty drastically with cache times. Just make sure you keep track of your main Google entraces for users. Personally i’m having more trouble staying up with Yahoo! than i am with Google. Any Yahoo tips please feel free to email me!

  20. Mike Evans says: 11/29/2006 at 10:22 am

    This nightmare scenario happened to me for the first time last week. I knew it was coming – I wasn’t indulging in Black Hat SEO, but I’d read so many scare stories from other innocent bloggers, I knew my turn would come. And come it did, with my keyword rankings going from top ten to somewhere in the top 500!

    Despite reading so many scare stories, though, I’m afraid to say I did indeed panic. Luckily I didn’t hack my site to death, but I was prepared to believe any old nonsense in a vain attempt to get my traffic back.

    In my case, I think the problem was that my site could be found by both http://www.domainname.com and by http://domainname.com, but stupidly I hadn’t redirected all traffic to just the one version. Consequently, Google saw both versions as two separate sites (they even had their own different PageRanks listed in Sitemaps), and penalised them both for duplicate content.

    I’ve fixed it now with 301 redirects, and just have to wait until I rise up the rankings again. But you’re right, Darren, it’s really been a wake up call on just how much I was relying on Google (and how lazy I’d become, taking all that traffic for granted).

    Thanks so much for this comprehensive and very reassuring post, Darren. Just what I needed to hear :)

  21. When your site is delisted, it means you can experiment with black hat on that site. What are they gonna do, delist you? :D

  22. In case something like this happens it is good to have other means of growth. Such as having a strong presence the community that you are a part in or having a ton of back links. No matter what, search engine results are a crutch that some rely to heavily on.

  23. Hello Mike Evans,

    You intrigued me when you wrote:

    “In my case, I think the problem was that my site could be found by both http://www.domainname.com and by http://domainname.com, but stupidly I hadn’t redirected all traffic to just the one version. Consequently, Google saw both versions as two separate sites (they even had their own different PageRanks listed in Sitemaps), and penalised them both for duplicate content.

    I’ve fixed it now with 301 redirects,..”

    Please tell us more about how to do the 301redirecting here. I am trying to imagine what a single line in the htaccess of one site (for example, http://www.domain.com) might look like. Would it be this?

    redirect 301 / http://domain.com/

    You say ‘redirects’ plural. So it seems you created a line for each page/directory, like this:

    redirect 301 /page1.html http://domain.com/page1.html
    redirect 301 /page2.html http://domain.com/page2.html
    etc

    Hope you have time to share more on this, Mike. Thanks.

    Gary
    http://blog.eProfitNews.org

  24. in my case, i have PR6 but google listed my page only on after 2nd page on the search result page (below 30th pos), my traffic is half what it used to be

    the only thing I do is digitalpoint co-opt link exchange (have remove this, the traffic back for some time after re inclusion request) and TLA links, which I still have on the site now.

    this is not happen on yahoo or msn

  25. Ok, this is the problem i got. My site is totally out from google for about 2 months from today.

    This is a link: http://cssbloom.com

    I write on DP forum about this here: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=167302

    For today i got no solution for that which is not good at all :(

    Maybe you got some advice for me.

  26. George says: 11/30/2006 at 6:14 pm

    I had suffer this many times. But now most of my traffic are coming from MSN and topix. And I have to say traffic from topix leads to a higher click on ads than people from google.

  27. […] Some Internet marketers may argue that SEO is not important when you have an email list, and search algorithms can change overnight, so while you can spend a full year optimizing your site, Google can “for no reason” pull you down and you will lose all your traffic. This is partially true, and in fact, Problogger Darren Rowse was even posting about what should you do if your Google Ranking falls and you lose all your traffic. […]

  28. yeah, i’ve been worrying more and more about this recently, especially since my income increased massively over the past few months. i need to diversify man.

  29. I recentely went through this with my blog. In November I was actually in first place for several of the keyword terms on my blog. Then December came…. BOOM. I was no where to be found in Google. I did some revamping to my main index page of the site… and, I’m not too sure, but I think that did the trick. After a week of agony, again my blog was ranked at the #1 spot in search. Now, today, it’s fallen to the #8 spot. I have to say that although it’s a pain, the challenge is fun.

  30. […] Source: What should you do if your Google Ranking Falls and you lose all your traffic? […]

  31. OUCH! I know how it felt. I moved off from B2E due to some hickup the upgrade process did on fantastico,into wordpress and boy I was in HOT SOUP. ZERO PR etc etc for months..till they ping back my sitemaps and all and reinstated my PR to 4 and after I got some huge backlinks due to playing MEME / Tags (like my Travel one @ http://www.azrin.net/?p=421 which I admit ..is plain evil but with the huge reasoning behind it), it got everyone on the link list a perk up of 2 points!

    Just like MLM, the earlier you join, the faster you grow too!

    Thanks for the tip!

    azrin

  32. Hi ProBlogger,

    My blog techchee.com , I guess it gets penalized by Google, this blog managed to grab a PR4 without www and PR2 with www after launching only few weeks, then I read from some other blogs to it’s better to join the one with www and without, so I did that by changing the .htaccesss and recently I’ve designed a new template for my blog and make it 3-column and I also participated in one of those craze of the technorati fave exchange initiated by doshdosh.com, but a shock today I found my pagerank drop to zero! But I searched Google for some of the keywords that I used to rank pretty high, and Google still showed me almost similar position like last time, such as “tech stuff gadgets”, “shop online gadgets” etc … Am I penalized? But of course, I’ll continously blogging, as my sitemeter now shows an averagely 130+ unique… to me sounds q satisfactory, the only bad side with zero page rank is I can’t take part in those payperpost :D but I blog for interest and fun, just have2 keep going… I did have some kind of obsession to push by backlinks etc, maybe it led me to penalized :(

  33. Hi ProBlogger,

    Sorry to bother you again to keep on asking this silly question, one last question, is there any chance for me to work my blog back to its original or higher page rank? Thanks in advance :)

  34. […] sites usefulTake your time to understand what is Google page rank, how is page rank calculated and what to do if your page rank drop. Have a good day. Just hope my wife don’t read this, the one about hint .. hint as she has […]

  35. Hi, I was hopeing you might be able to help. I have hade this blog since feb this year. It got indexed to page two under keyword “Unblock Myspace” and slowly made its way to page 1. after a month. Then it all went rong I put up a new post then it wasnt but the next day my blog got burried in the results, so I paniced and took the post off, two days later my blog took back its index spot on page one.

    I got around 2000 + visitors a day and because of the topic there are very few compitors in the niche so adsense dosn’t pay well. So recently I made some adjustments to try and increase my earnings by posting new content,. and by completly forgeting the first horrible experience, It happend again but a little differently. About 3 days after publishing my new posts my adsense earning increased and I was loving it, 2 days later my site got burried to the back of the keyword index ?? I have watched it all week and it has slowly made it’s way to page 35 and has stayed there for 2 days now.

    Can you help me out, maybe you know whats going on, and can suggest somthing. Hopefuly.

    Thanks,
    Paul A

  36. Hi , my blog pagerank recently fall down to N/A from 2 on google toolbar . I don’t know why . It happen when Google was making some updates in page rank . The page rank on site is not increasing. I am having no pagerank for last 2 months . I am getting good traffic from google on few keywords .

  37. I just got knocked out of the rankings again by Google. Second time. Very frustrating. The first time it took a couple of months for my traffic to return to normal levels.

    I think the reason both times (they have a common cause after all) was using inappropriate words (in appropriate contexts).

    I hope this doesn’t knock me out of Google for two months. That would be tough to stomach, even though it doesn’t send much traffic now it is still 50% of my visitors.

  38. Hi Problogger
    Thank you for your fantastic site. I have recently improved my page rank considering the tips you have referd to. Thanks

  39. I really appreciates for this nice article…it helps lot of newbies and of coarse the SEOs while doing search engine optimization….thanks Darren :)

  40. Great Google ranking post Darren! It looks like you originally posted this 11 months ago, but you are still receiving relevant comments so a lot of us are still having this issue.

    We are experiencing a strange situation where our PR rank fell from PR4 to PR0…but only on our home page. Pages within the site are still 3’s and 4’s when tested, but the main page remains at zero. We didn’t do anything unusual to initiate the sudden page rank changes (that we know of), but natural search and overall traffic is steady despite the homepage ranking bug.

    Hopefully it is just a glitch that will work itself out, but we’ll check out a few link provided in the post and see if we can find others with the same issue.

    Thanks again!
    Webmaster http://www.drmoz.com

  41. I Have a web site and that is a very dynamics site, google index my site with in 7 days but my site page rank not increased,
    what can i do for that. Pls do say or give me tips about that.
    thanks
    iliyas patel

  42. I just entered my first dark period today. I’ve re-run some past searches that got me to the first page, and now I’m either not there or something like number 500. While I don’t make mega money like the professional bloggers, the $1 – 4 per day hit is nice and makes you want to build your blog to get even more.

    I’ll take your advice and be patient while continuing to post.

    Cheers.

  43. I have lost my rankings, I was on page three now I am on page 13. This is a massive decline, although I am confident i will get back to where I was and closer to that first page. For my keyword I was 23 out 200,000, but I am planning to create a podcast to increase my rankings.

  44. I experienced that, back then on my early months of blogging when my PR4 went to 0. I didn’t do anything and kept blogging as usual. Thankfully, it rose again after a few weeks, even it isn’t as high as it was..

  45. I have lost my blog traffic too. Two days ago the traffic and SERP ranking back but only for two days, than fall again. But the PR goes up from PR 4 to PR 5. So what must I do now?Just wait or do another else? thanks

  46. Great post. I’m having the same problems with my website http://www.androidmagazine.nl at the moment. I was doing really great, after just two weeks I got in the first SERP with the keyword ‘android’. And than it struck. I’ve been set back to the 3rd of 4th SERP page. It’s been lasting a few days now so I hope it’s over soon…

  47. Yea I am currently going through something similar..it is not easy but this is a good article.

    Thank you very much for sharing this….

  48. just today i noticed my PR is dropped down from 3 to 0 … it frightened me but i got lucky to find this post.

    the traffic is gone little low but its still coming from google will the PR drop down take little time to effect organic traffic?

    i was having server outage problem, my site was facing problem for last two months….once its up and once its down…i don’t know if this issue dropped my site’s rank

    how much time it will take PR to be updated?

  49. A PR drop will be affecting your traffic from google.

  50. […] other factors). For a little balance on the topic you might find my Confessions of a Linkaholic and Should You Write for Humans or Computers? […]

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