Dear Amazon.
I have been using your Associates program for quite a few years now – from the early days when I earned just a few dollars a month to today when I send you tens of thousands of dollars of business each month. I’ve written about why I believe in your program and have no doubt sent you hundreds (if not thousands of affiliates in my time).
By my calculations I’ve sent you around $1,500,000 of sales over the last five years.
I’m very grateful for the $70,000+ you’ve sent me in affiliate payments and am by no means am I your biggest affiliate but I hope that having reached the million dollars in sales mark you’ll forgive me this note to express a concern that I have in the hope that it might help improve your program.
I am increasingly frustrated by your payment system.
While you offer direct debit payments to those situated in the USA – I live in Australia and so have two options for payment – gift certificates and check. Lets take a look at both methods:
1. Gift Certificates – as someone who earns $2000-$3000 in commissions each month from Amazon it is simply not feasible for me to take my payments in certificates. For starters I’d run out of things to buy pretty quickly – particularly because most of your high ticket items cannot be shipped outside of the USA.
This leaves me with the option of either just buying books, DVDs and CDs ($2-$3k worth a month….) or buying things, shipping them to US friends and having them repost them to Australia. It also means having to pay for international shipping on everything I buy – not cheap. Lets just say that all of this rules out the gift certificate option (although I take it once a year if I’m doing a trip to the US).
2. Check – this leaves me with only one option – receiving a check. Let me say that your checks do come quickly. I get them within a couple of weeks of the end of the month – a lot faster than others (nice work) – however a check of over $2000 in Australia needs to be processed and sent by my bank back to the USA before it can be cleared. This takes six weeks from the day I bank it.
This means that money I make from Amazon on the 1st of a month can take six weeks before I get the check and then another six weeks before I can see the money. That’s 3 months!
All in all this is one of the slowest and antiquated payment systems that I have to use. Every other affiliate program or ad network that I use (and I use a few) gives either the option for an international direct deposit or a PayPal transfer, particularly to affiliates who earn over a certain threshold.
The only other affiliate program that insists upon me receiving checks gives me the option to have them split into smaller amounts (so I get 2-3 of them each month) so that the check can be processed locally without the six week delay.
I love the Amazon affiliate program but the payment system is increasingly frustrating me. I’d love to see you do something about it for myself and my fellow non US affiliates and in doing so improve your already great program.
I know you must be kind of busy with your big Black Friday sale – but I’d appreciate your consideration to this.
Darren Rowse – ProBlogger.net
PS: having just added up how much business I’ve sent you ($1.5M made me have to sit down) it strikes me that you’re the largest affiliate program or ad network that I deal with that I’ve never had any personal contact with. Again – I’m sure I’m a small fish in comparison to some of your other affiliates – but other affiliate programs and ad networks give their medium to large affiliates quite a bit more personal attention.
Some assign account managers, others call every now and again to see how we’re going, quite a few offer special premium commissions for larger publishers, quite a few send a gift…. or even a card at Christmas time to say thanks for the business. Amazon…. well you send me checks that take 6 weeks to clear.
Don’t get me wrong – checks are nice and you’ve more than helped me make a dent in my mortgage…. but when web publishers are making the choice of which affiliate program to use on their websites, sometimes the little things count.
Thanks for writing this, Darren! I am having the same problems with Amazon-checks here in Sweden. Would love to see that they start using PayPal.
Those are staggering figures!! I just started the Amazon program 3 months ago and I’m excited to be selling 50 items each month and earning $100. I can’t even begin to imagine making that kind of money from one affiliate. Nice job Darren…and I would think that Amazon one of the worlds leading companies would figure out a way to fix this problem.
Darren,
the amount you make as an Amazon affiliate is really eye popping. I haven’t managed to get a single sale as yet. It’s true that they payment methods are ancient and frustrating for users outside USA. It is one of the reasons why I had been putting off actively promoting their products as an affiliate. Really wonder why them..and some other major companies do not offer paypal payments which are much easier for international affiliates.
I have never used amazon affilate but i do look into the smaller aspects like payments while selecting a service
Absolutely agree Darren, what is equally frustrating is not being able to have 1 amazon affiliate account to rule them all. Instead we have to have multiple accounts for the US store, UK, Germany etc. etc. It gets a bit ridiculous.
The cheques take just as long to clear here in the UK, and don’t get me started on not being able to unsubscribe from their monthly ‘Amazon Associates Network Updates’ emails. The Amazon Affiliate program could be one of the best if it wasn’t for their backwards methods.
Hi Darren,
Congratulations on the amount of sales and commissions you make. Considering what a small percentage Amazon pays, the amount that eventually makes it to you is considerable.
I receive my Amazon commissions by direct electronic deposit. I would think that’s available Internationally, not just nationally. Have you explored that? And they pay like clockwork, as you say, right into my checking account.
Darren,
I would love for you to give us some insight into the types of products that you sell from Amazon. I am not sure why I don’t promote them, but I like many of your readers do not. I think that we would all love some guidance on how to make money with the amazon affiliate program.
-Online Banks Blogger
Darren, congrats on your earnings!
Years and years ago I got a traveling coffee cup from Amazon in thanks for being an early affiliate and also another time, again an eon ago, 10 postage stamps – as I recall they were at a new rate the US was imposing.
I’ve never done anything like the business your doing, but there as a time when they knew how to treat their affiliates.
Anne Wayman, now blogging at http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com
OMG Totally agree, being another Aussie I feel your pain darren. I can understand the 60 days thing because of refunds but why do they HAVE to pay us with cheques…
I’m actually looking into how to set up a US bank account at the moment mainly for amazon (and trips to the US too). Just have to go through the process of getting a social security number, tax info etc.
Strange. Here in France, we get direct debit payments too. At least this is what is written on their website.
Is Amazon Affiliates true and honest.I have got to use it.I have heard a lots about it but ne’er used it.
Amazon.com is just like any other large corporation. Greedy and sloppy.
Hehe, I just started with them yesterday and I wish I had your problem. But the checks are a problem, last one from Google took about 2 months to cash here (Netherlands).
I’m in the exact same situation as you Darren.. I live in Canada, which is not that far away, and I have to do the same thing. This month will be my biggest month ever, and my affiliate check should be in the 4 figure range.
For me, amazon.com’s affiliate system works the best because people trust the brand.. when you send someone to their online shop, they know they’re not dealing with an unknown merchant who may not have the infrastructure to process payment as securely as Amazon.
With that said, I really don’t get why they wouldn’t offer paypal payment. Everybody does it these days…. would it be so difficult to implement this payment system?
Heck, I’d wait six weeks for 3 grand/month. There’s lots that have full time jobs that don’t pay this.
Once the first check arrives and gets deposited you can bank on the fact that in a little over 90 days you’ve got another 2-3k, like clockwork. I wouldn’t care so much as to when I get paid, but how much. :) Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I’d happily wait and keep blogging instead of complaining.
Excellent post and well done with your affiliate stats. Wish I was earning that much per month, don’t think I’d mind waiting 6 weeks for it to clear especially if I knew I was getting more. I can understand the frustration though. Here in Ireland it’s not too bad. If I receive an affiliate check I can just lodge it to my bank and it takes approximately 7 working days to clear. I know that in some banks in the UK they won’t accept foreign checks so that’s even worse. Hopefully someone from Amazon will post a reply, can’t wait to see what they have to say. Make sure you twitter it if they do.
Amanda
Me thinks these comments will entice Darren into writing more posts about Amazon Affiliate success, however I have to think harder on his complaints here…
Unbelievable that Amazon hasn’t stepped on the PayPal bandwagon. You can’t even shop with PayPal there unless you’re using the PayPal debit/credit card (which appears as a regular credit card but behaves like a bank checking card).
Also unbelievable is the lack of contact. Amazon is probably the largest “department store” online, yet they don’t even communicate directly with their larger affiliates? Not cool.
I too use Amazon as an affiliate, and I don’t make a fraction of a fraction what you make, Darren, but of course, my complaint there is the scripting of their tools that doesn’t allow for much customization outside their apps, and uses iframes which has been known to break sites for me and others I know. But that’s another complaint entirely. :)
Love the open letter, and I hope that maybe you’ll get some affiliate love from Amazon soon in the form of at least answers.
I predict a very nice holiday card from Amazon in your future. Perhaps even a thank you basket. Somebody dropped the ball here.
I’m not trying to defend Amazon, but your situation raises some questions that I think might be relevant.
Do you know the geographic distribution of the revenues that you generate for Amazon? If your referrals are generating U.S. business, then it seems more reasonable — or, better yet, less unreasonable — for Amazon to pay you in the U.S. After all, Amazon is a U.S.-based business. I have absolutely no idea what Amazon’s non-U.S. sales are — and I’m far too lazy to look it up now!
I’m not trying to be an “America First” yahoo (no pun intended) about this. I realize that it can seem arrogant to say that if your business is with a U.S. firm, then you should expect payment in the U.S. However, I’ve experienced the exact same phenomenon in reverse, when I’ve dealt with European businesses (and one from Australia, I recall). This doesn’t excuse every inconvenience, but individual firms don’t run the banking and financial systems. I’m really not sure what Amazon’s options are for moving funds across national borders. While they must have some leverage as a large enterprise, that still does not ensure that they are well-served in every aspect of banking services.
If moving funds across borders is really simple (and I’m guessing it is not), then you could set up a U.S. bank account, receive your payments from Amazon via direct deposit, and then move them yourself.
Obviously, I know I’m suggesting something that sounds arrogant here. I’m not actually suggesting that it’s just as easy for you to make the international transfer as it is for Amazon. But, if you tried to do that, you might learn what the banking and financial systems of our countries do with regard to international transfers.
Depending on what you’d learn from doing this work yourself, it might lead to insights about why Amazon does things they way they do.
For instance, maybe your U.S. and/or Australian banks would charge fees for transferring money between your accounts. Wouldn’t you expect this to be the case? (I’m not asking if you think it’s reasonable. I’m asking if you think it would be the situation.)
For instance, maybe a transfer between your U.S. and Australian banks would involve a delay — though probably considerably less than clearing a check, of course.
Lastly, if none of the problems that I think you would have actually come to pass, isn’t there a business opportunity here for a middleman? It would have to work for all the small affiliates, the ones who earn a few dollars each month. So, if the international banking system charges a minimum flat-rate fee for all transfers — say $25 U.S. (which sounds like a number that banks would charge) — then the business opportunity would only work for a firm that could avoid those transfer fees. Maybe PayPal could solve the problem, for example. Does PayPal operate in Australia?
I hope you realize that I’m not trying to tell you to “suck it up” and stop complaining. I think your problem is genuine and that Amazon clearly doesn’t offer much of a solution. Do other firms offer better solutions? I don’t know whether Amazon leaves you with this problem because they don’t pay attention to their affiliates or because they have tried to create the best international money transfer process possible, and the one they offer is the only cost-effective process that their banks offer them.
Jeff Bezos is a financial wizard — you’d think he’d have the best solution for this problem.
Best regards,
Jim
Wow Darren your gains are amazing. Please tell us about the result of your open letter.
Also a non-US affiliate here. We can’t get our payment in check because they send it through regular postal mail, and the Philippine postal service can’t be trusted not to steal your last dime.
I agree with Thomas’ comment about being sloppy. Getting them to address a concern takes roughly 20 emails for me. Why? Because their customer service agents do NOT read the emails and give me generic and obviously completely useless answers, some of which even have nothing to do with my concerns. So I have to type everything all over again.
And every other email, someone will give me an answer that requires a reply, but they don’t have a reply form or even a ticket number to track previous emails with, so I have to cut and paste their reply to the lousy contact form box and pray to high heavens I get an agent who actually READS what people send in.
But yep, we don’t earn anywhere near the same planet as you do, Darren. I really hope they notice this and pay attention.
Yes, Amazon is a bizarre program in the sense of the almost total hands-off approach! I would say the upside of that is that they really leave you alone, and don’t pry much into the way you promote their products, unless you blatantly infringe the rules. I see that as a positive side, but it is strange that you don’t have your own affiliate manager with that level of sales – surely they could increase sales even more if they built a more active relationship with large affiliates…
The lack of real-time tracking is also very annoying — with the resources Amazon has you would think they would have the most cutting-edge affiliate program software around…instead, it’s one of the oldest and clunkiest you could ever imagine…
I agree. Based in the UK. I opt for certificates. I once got a check but lost 20% in cashing an American check.
I once asked if I could integrate my .com affiliates and .co.uk affiliates account but they never reply.
The very low commision, means I don’t really put too much into amazon. We may be small fry, but, if they ignore us too much it doesn’t represent good business practise for long run
It’s funny, even on the highest end of the spectrum with Amazon (attempting to speak with their marketing people about sponsorships), it is difficult to speak with an actual person.
When you do … they’re not very helpful …
Hopefully they will wake up to this before a competitor steps up.
Darren,
I just started messing around with the amazon associates program. I do hope to get some nice commissions, and I don’t have to wait to cash, (i’m in the US) but that sucks for my overseas buddies!
I really can’t believe someone who has been around as long as them doesn’t have the ability to direct deposit non US payments.
The thing with them using paypal is that they directly compete with Ebay and Ebay owns PayPal. Ever sense Amazon started letting everyone sell used items they have been eating into Ebay’s proffits hand over fist.
I would be willing to bet Amazon will never use PayPal for this simple reason.
They should be able to come up with another system though to make payments better for their international affiliates.
Hands off is a good modile though. I think we all wish we could get others to sell for us and automate the process so we just sit back and watch the cash roll in. If they had account managers they would ahve to pay them and that costs money. If I was an executive with Amazon I wouldn’t change much of the program either.
Unless there is a large outcry of complaints from international affiliates, I doubt they will do anything about this at all. To change the system will cost them money…so unless they stand to loose more than it would cost to change the payment options they wont. Its just business.
I have been a member of the Amazon Affiliate program for many years and each month I get gift certificate to apply to my account so my wife can buy books.
Actually the percent that is paid out as a commission is really low so I do not put any energy into promoting Amazon products as I do not believe that it is really worth the effort.
I know that Darren has the traffic to allow it to convert but as we all know the screen real estate is very critical in your monetizing process and unless I am doing a book review I am not sure that I would want to dedicate banner space to Amazon.
While I am by no means large (I’m not even on the horizon with my new blog), I think one “hidden” aspect of this issue is something that perhaps Amazon might not have anticipated? I’ve read a bit about affiliate experiences, both positive and negative. I decided not to participate in the Amazon affiliate program (for any of the blogs and sites I control), primarily motivated by some of the things I’ve read. The comment from “Bradly Fletchall” suggests “…unless they stand to loose more than it would cost to change the payment options…” is a good point, but I think they need to focus on what they could be making, how their profits could increase if updating their system. All too often business operators don’t sit and evaluate some of the hidden markets they could tap into. Improving their program to address the issues ProBlogger has made might help to garner them more affiliates (and sales) than thought. Additionally, a German study found that “54% of blog visitors formulate their opinions about products and companies from blogs.” That’s a significant number!
Thank you for addressing this issue. When I twittered you about the issue when I tried to order your book, I had thought you could care less, but I am glad to see I was wrong.
Great letter! :)
Highly doubt they will give a hoot about this. Even if you stop being their affiliate they would not feel a dent. They’re just too big.
Yes, it’s crappy. But true.
…maybe if they started amazon.com.au perhaps they might offer direct deposits to purchases made on that site. But then you would have a considerably smaller audience.
Right on, Darren. As a Canadian, I am consistently frustrated with this “international” virtual world that caters to mainly U.S. consumers and sellers.
I deal, I cope, and I mutter to myself in private that other people exist and help support those business whom we deal with.
Thanks for saying out loud what I think many people in other countries want to say as well. I certainly appreciate it, for one.
Great post Darren, I hope they see it and take note.
They should with those numbers.
I’ll twitter this too.
Linda Buquet
Kudos to you Darren! As much as I am concern I really believe that Amazon has made the name and that is why customer service to them really might be a problem to them or that they have so much affiliates that it is difficult to really provide their affiliate with what they need. The lesson in this piece is not for Amazon but for affiliate or merchants who has been able to generate enough affiliate market force to market their product. Under no circumstances should you leave your affiliate stranded because you have made name. Remember that they brought you where you are because of their hard work and so you can not just behave as if you now have nothing at stake. They brought you there in the first place so care of them! Thanks so much. Oke Timothy. Affiliate Marketer
And yet Amazon was probably the first ever online affiliate pogram, talk about going backwards.
They invest loads in different ways of promoting their products but won’t invest a penny in a simple international direct deposit for their affiliates
Darren, you’ve always been direct and to the point if you had any issues with your affiliated programs. I hope the affiliate programs do some change for the non US affiliates and there is less or hassle free transactions to be made.
Darren, you’ve always been direct and to the point if you had any issues with your affiliated programs. I hope the affiliate programs do some change for the non US affiliates and there is less or hassle free transactions to be made.
Hope Amazon does something abt this and soon.
cheers.
With so many sites being hacked these days do you really think it is safe to give your ssn to affiliates programs? I’m hesitant to do so.
Darren,
Next trip to the states, why don’t you stop at a bank and set-up an account. Then you can have Amazon deposit directly into your US account. You can then either wire transfer or better yet, get the debit card card and use it.
Just a suggestion.
Wow Darren nice letter and even more impressive stats! Congrats.
At the measly 1%+ Amazon pays associates your numbers rock!
Keep us informed of the outcome please.
One thing I didn’t notice you mention but which is a big problem for me are the bank fees involved. I’m in the USA and offer Amazon affiliate links for both USA and UK. When I get the checks from the UK the wait time isn’t really an issue for me but the bank fees are.
In order for my bank to cash the check from pounds to dollars they will charge me something upwards of 25%. I don’t make anywhere near the amount of sales you do, so it ends up not being even worth it anymore to get paid in money, now I just take the UK gift certificates. Even with the small amounts of sales I do make, as you mentioned, I’m running out of things I want to buy! Plus I feel stupid ordering and paying to ship items from the UK that I could easily buy here for less (because I wouldn’t have to pay the high shipping).
Paypal or some similar type of service (while it would still take a percentage of the total amount paid) would be much better as at least it wouldn’t be taking a whole 25% or more out of my earnings.
Great letter – thanks for supporting us all. Google manages to get the money directly into my Australian bank account with no problems – time for Amazon to do the same!
You talk about delay in cashing the checks. If that was a problem!
I got a 5k check stolen and cashed. It took me several months and a lot of paperwork to prove the issue and have it cut again.
Not to mention when they sent a 36k check (my all time best) to a wrong addres (not their fault, though). It was a long wait until they received it back and send it again.
In some countries regular mail is very insecure. Most thieves know how to spot an Amazon check and steal it.
You can´t even hire a mail forwarding system because you can´t use an US mailbox in your account if you live outside.
I spent endless hours by mail and phone with no luck trying to solve this issue.
Now my business has changed and I only earn less than $50 per month and chose GIFT CERTIFICATE as payment method. Which I spend on books only.
Yeah Amazon, get with the program!!! Knowing how poorly you treat Darren makes me not want to visit your site this Holiday Season… I’m sure I’m not the only one. Do the right thing and pay this guy on a timely basis!!
Strategically, I don’t know if Amazon would want to use PayPal to make payments because it would directly help who it sees as it’s largest competitor, eBay. On the other hand, they could offer international direct deposit, especially for larger associates like yourself. I salute you on your success with the associates program. I’ve been using it for a few years myself, and have basically been very impressed and satisfied with how fun and easy it is to make money with it.
Well said Darren! I’m in Australia too and have not bothered with the Amazon affiliate program with any of my sites due to their cumbersome payment methods for those outside America.
Darren, I’m afraid I’m with Jim Fitzsimmons on this one. A few years ago, according to your own book, you were thrilled to see a few bucks come in from blogging. Now you complain (and take up a whole article to do it) about having to wait for your $2000-3000 checks, and whine that Amazon’s 70 grand has merely “put a dent in your mortgage.” Most of your readers would be thrilled to make a fraction of that from their blogs, especially in this economy, the worst in 70 years. I think anyone who is lucky enough to work from home, no matter how little they’re making, should consider themselves extremely fortunate. The fact that you’re so bent out of shape about not having Amazon pay you more attention tells me you really don’t have any idea how lucky you are. Perhaps you should read the intro to your book again, remember where you come from. You may be back there soon, the way things are going.
Cheers –
Bob
I like the Amazon program. I never had a problem with it. I hope they can make things easier for you Darren.
Maybe Amazon can setup a payment system to rival PayPal. They have ventured into other avenues such Alexa.com
I dunno, I can’t work myself up too much over this because in two years of dutifully posting their ads and changing their banners on three web sites I have yet to receive one dime in any form of currencey whatsoever.