Written on November 29th, 2008 at 12:11 am by Darren Rowse
An Open Letter to the Amazon Associates Program
Dear Amazon.
I have been using your Associates program for quite a few years now - from the early days when I earned just a few dollars a month to today when I send you tens of thousands of dollars of business each month. I’ve written about why I believe in your program and have no doubt sent you hundreds (if not thousands of affiliates in my time).
By my calculations I’ve sent you around $1,500,000 of sales over the last five years.
I’m very grateful for the $70,000+ you’ve sent me in affiliate payments and am by no means am I your biggest affiliate but I hope that having reached the million dollars in sales mark you’ll forgive me this note to express a concern that I have in the hope that it might help improve your program.
I am increasingly frustrated by your payment system.
While you offer direct debit payments to those situated in the USA - I live in Australia and so have two options for payment - gift certificates and check. Lets take a look at both methods:
1. Gift Certificates - as someone who earns $2000-$3000 in commissions each month from Amazon it is simply not feasible for me to take my payments in certificates. For starters I’d run out of things to buy pretty quickly - particularly because most of your high ticket items cannot be shipped outside of the USA.
This leaves me with the option of either just buying books, DVDs and CDs ($2-$3k worth a month….) or buying things, shipping them to US friends and having them repost them to Australia. It also means having to pay for international shipping on everything I buy - not cheap. Lets just say that all of this rules out the gift certificate option (although I take it once a year if I’m doing a trip to the US).
2. Check - this leaves me with only one option - receiving a check. Let me say that your checks do come quickly. I get them within a couple of weeks of the end of the month - a lot faster than others (nice work) - however a check of over $2000 in Australia needs to be processed and sent by my bank back to the USA before it can be cleared. This takes six weeks from the day I bank it.
This means that money I make from Amazon on the 1st of a month can take six weeks before I get the check and then another six weeks before I can see the money. That’s 3 months!
All in all this is one of the slowest and antiquated payment systems that I have to use. Every other affiliate program or ad network that I use (and I use a few) gives either the option for an international direct deposit or a PayPal transfer, particularly to affiliates who earn over a certain threshold.
The only other affiliate program that insists upon me receiving checks gives me the option to have them split into smaller amounts (so I get 2-3 of them each month) so that the check can be processed locally without the six week delay.
I love the Amazon affiliate program but the payment system is increasingly frustrating me. I’d love to see you do something about it for myself and my fellow non US affiliates and in doing so improve your already great program.
I know you must be kind of busy with your big Black Friday sale - but I’d appreciate your consideration to this.
Darren Rowse - ProBlogger.net
PS: having just added up how much business I’ve sent you ($1.5M made me have to sit down) it strikes me that you’re the largest affiliate program or ad network that I deal with that I’ve never had any personal contact with. Again - I’m sure I’m a small fish in comparison to some of your other affiliates - but other affiliate programs and ad networks give their medium to large affiliates quite a bit more personal attention.
Some assign account managers, others call every now and again to see how we’re going, quite a few offer special premium commissions for larger publishers, quite a few send a gift…. or even a card at Christmas time to say thanks for the business. Amazon…. well you send me checks that take 6 weeks to clear.
Don’t get me wrong - checks are nice and you’ve more than helped me make a dent in my mortgage…. but when web publishers are making the choice of which affiliate program to use on their websites, sometimes the little things count.
Tags: , Affiliate Programs, Amazon, Amazon Associates Program
102 Responses to “An Open Letter to the Amazon Associates Program”
Henrik
November 29th, 2008 12:22 am
Thanks for writing this, Darren! I am having the same problems with Amazon-checks here in Sweden. Would love to see that they start using PayPal.
Todd
November 29th, 2008 12:31 am
Those are staggering figures!! I just started the Amazon program 3 months ago and I’m excited to be selling 50 items each month and earning $100. I can’t even begin to imagine making that kind of money from one affiliate. Nice job Darren…and I would think that Amazon one of the worlds leading companies would figure out a way to fix this problem.
Dominique
November 29th, 2008 12:41 am
Darren,
the amount you make as an Amazon affiliate is really eye popping. I haven’t managed to get a single sale as yet. It’s true that they payment methods are ancient and frustrating for users outside USA. It is one of the reasons why I had been putting off actively promoting their products as an affiliate. Really wonder why them..and some other major companies do not offer paypal payments which are much easier for international affiliates.
Rahul Jadhav
November 29th, 2008 12:41 am
I have never used amazon affilate but i do look into the smaller aspects like payments while selecting a service
Sam Brown
November 29th, 2008 12:58 am
Absolutely agree Darren, what is equally frustrating is not being able to have 1 amazon affiliate account to rule them all. Instead we have to have multiple accounts for the US store, UK, Germany etc. etc. It gets a bit ridiculous.
The cheques take just as long to clear here in the UK, and don’t get me started on not being able to unsubscribe from their monthly ‘Amazon Associates Network Updates’ emails. The Amazon Affiliate program could be one of the best if it wasn’t for their backwards methods.
Jeanie Marshall
November 29th, 2008 12:58 am
Hi Darren,
Congratulations on the amount of sales and commissions you make. Considering what a small percentage Amazon pays, the amount that eventually makes it to you is considerable.
I receive my Amazon commissions by direct electronic deposit. I would think that’s available Internationally, not just nationally. Have you explored that? And they pay like clockwork, as you say, right into my checking account.
Online Banks Blogger
November 29th, 2008 1:02 am
Darren,
I would love for you to give us some insight into the types of products that you sell from Amazon. I am not sure why I don’t promote them, but I like many of your readers do not. I think that we would all love some guidance on how to make money with the amazon affiliate program.
-Online Banks Blogger
Anne Wayman
November 29th, 2008 1:02 am
Darren, congrats on your earnings!
Years and years ago I got a traveling coffee cup from Amazon in thanks for being an early affiliate and also another time, again an eon ago, 10 postage stamps - as I recall they were at a new rate the US was imposing.
I’ve never done anything like the business your doing, but there as a time when they knew how to treat their affiliates.
Anne Wayman, now blogging at http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com
Tim Robinson
November 29th, 2008 1:03 am
OMG Totally agree, being another Aussie I feel your pain darren. I can understand the 60 days thing because of refunds but why do they HAVE to pay us with cheques…
I’m actually looking into how to set up a US bank account at the moment mainly for amazon (and trips to the US too). Just have to go through the process of getting a social security number, tax info etc.
Nicolas
November 29th, 2008 1:04 am
Strange. Here in France, we get direct debit payments too. At least this is what is written on their website.
Harish
November 29th, 2008 1:05 am
Is Amazon Affiliates true and honest.I have got to use it.I have heard a lots about it but ne’er used it.
Thomas
November 29th, 2008 1:06 am
Amazon.com is just like any other large corporation. Greedy and sloppy.
XIII
November 29th, 2008 1:08 am
Hehe, I just started with them yesterday and I wish I had your problem. But the checks are a problem, last one from Google took about 2 months to cash here (Netherlands).
Geeks are Sexy
November 29th, 2008 1:11 am
I’m in the exact same situation as you Darren.. I live in Canada, which is not that far away, and I have to do the same thing. This month will be my biggest month ever, and my affiliate check should be in the 4 figure range.
For me, amazon.com’s affiliate system works the best because people trust the brand.. when you send someone to their online shop, they know they’re not dealing with an unknown merchant who may not have the infrastructure to process payment as securely as Amazon.
With that said, I really don’t get why they wouldn’t offer paypal payment. Everybody does it these days…. would it be so difficult to implement this payment system?
JIm Fitzsimmons
November 29th, 2008 1:18 am
Heck, I’d wait six weeks for 3 grand/month. There’s lots that have full time jobs that don’t pay this.
Once the first check arrives and gets deposited you can bank on the fact that in a little over 90 days you’ve got another 2-3k, like clockwork. I wouldn’t care so much as to when I get paid, but how much. :) Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I’d happily wait and keep blogging instead of complaining.
Amanda Evans
November 29th, 2008 1:19 am
Excellent post and well done with your affiliate stats. Wish I was earning that much per month, don’t think I’d mind waiting 6 weeks for it to clear especially if I knew I was getting more. I can understand the frustration though. Here in Ireland it’s not too bad. If I receive an affiliate check I can just lodge it to my bank and it takes approximately 7 working days to clear. I know that in some banks in the UK they won’t accept foreign checks so that’s even worse. Hopefully someone from Amazon will post a reply, can’t wait to see what they have to say. Make sure you twitter it if they do.
Amanda
Lara Kulpa
November 29th, 2008 1:32 am
Me thinks these comments will entice Darren into writing more posts about Amazon Affiliate success, however I have to think harder on his complaints here…
Unbelievable that Amazon hasn’t stepped on the PayPal bandwagon. You can’t even shop with PayPal there unless you’re using the PayPal debit/credit card (which appears as a regular credit card but behaves like a bank checking card).
Also unbelievable is the lack of contact. Amazon is probably the largest “department store” online, yet they don’t even communicate directly with their larger affiliates? Not cool.
I too use Amazon as an affiliate, and I don’t make a fraction of a fraction what you make, Darren, but of course, my complaint there is the scripting of their tools that doesn’t allow for much customization outside their apps, and uses iframes which has been known to break sites for me and others I know. But that’s another complaint entirely. :)
Love the open letter, and I hope that maybe you’ll get some affiliate love from Amazon soon in the form of at least answers.
Tomato Lady
November 29th, 2008 1:32 am
I predict a very nice holiday card from Amazon in your future. Perhaps even a thank you basket. Somebody dropped the ball here.
Jim Vernon
November 29th, 2008 1:41 am
I’m not trying to defend Amazon, but your situation raises some questions that I think might be relevant.
Do you know the geographic distribution of the revenues that you generate for Amazon? If your referrals are generating U.S. business, then it seems more reasonable — or, better yet, less unreasonable — for Amazon to pay you in the U.S. After all, Amazon is a U.S.-based business. I have absolutely no idea what Amazon’s non-U.S. sales are — and I’m far too lazy to look it up now!
I’m not trying to be an “America First” yahoo (no pun intended) about this. I realize that it can seem arrogant to say that if your business is with a U.S. firm, then you should expect payment in the U.S. However, I’ve experienced the exact same phenomenon in reverse, when I’ve dealt with European businesses (and one from Australia, I recall). This doesn’t excuse every inconvenience, but individual firms don’t run the banking and financial systems. I’m really not sure what Amazon’s options are for moving funds across national borders. While they must have some leverage as a large enterprise, that still does not ensure that they are well-served in every aspect of banking services.
If moving funds across borders is really simple (and I’m guessing it is not), then you could set up a U.S. bank account, receive your payments from Amazon via direct deposit, and then move them yourself.
Obviously, I know I’m suggesting something that sounds arrogant here. I’m not actually suggesting that it’s just as easy for you to make the international transfer as it is for Amazon. But, if you tried to do that, you might learn what the banking and financial systems of our countries do with regard to international transfers.
Depending on what you’d learn from doing this work yourself, it might lead to insights about why Amazon does things they way they do.
For instance, maybe your U.S. and/or Australian banks would charge fees for transferring money between your accounts. Wouldn’t you expect this to be the case? (I’m not asking if you think it’s reasonable. I’m asking if you think it would be the situation.)
For instance, maybe a transfer between your U.S. and Australian banks would involve a delay — though probably considerably less than clearing a check, of course.
Lastly, if none of the problems that I think you would have actually come to pass, isn’t there a business opportunity here for a middleman? It would have to work for all the small affiliates, the ones who earn a few dollars each month. So, if the international banking system charges a minimum flat-rate fee for all transfers — say $25 U.S. (which sounds like a number that banks would charge) — then the business opportunity would only work for a firm that could avoid those transfer fees. Maybe PayPal could solve the problem, for example. Does PayPal operate in Australia?
I hope you realize that I’m not trying to tell you to “suck it up” and stop complaining. I think your problem is genuine and that Amazon clearly doesn’t offer much of a solution. Do other firms offer better solutions? I don’t know whether Amazon leaves you with this problem because they don’t pay attention to their affiliates or because they have tried to create the best international money transfer process possible, and the one they offer is the only cost-effective process that their banks offer them.
Jeff Bezos is a financial wizard — you’d think he’d have the best solution for this problem.
Best regards,
Jim
Yvonh
November 29th, 2008 1:46 am
Wow Darren your gains are amazing. Please tell us about the result of your open letter.
Lisa
November 29th, 2008 1:55 am
Also a non-US affiliate here. We can’t get our payment in check because they send it through regular postal mail, and the Philippine postal service can’t be trusted not to steal your last dime.
I agree with Thomas’ comment about being sloppy. Getting them to address a concern takes roughly 20 emails for me. Why? Because their customer service agents do NOT read the emails and give me generic and obviously completely useless answers, some of which even have nothing to do with my concerns. So I have to type everything all over again.
And every other email, someone will give me an answer that requires a reply, but they don’t have a reply form or even a ticket number to track previous emails with, so I have to cut and paste their reply to the lousy contact form box and pray to high heavens I get an agent who actually READS what people send in.
But yep, we don’t earn anywhere near the same planet as you do, Darren. I really hope they notice this and pay attention.
markowe
November 29th, 2008 1:56 am
Yes, Amazon is a bizarre program in the sense of the almost total hands-off approach! I would say the upside of that is that they really leave you alone, and don’t pry much into the way you promote their products, unless you blatantly infringe the rules. I see that as a positive side, but it is strange that you don’t have your own affiliate manager with that level of sales - surely they could increase sales even more if they built a more active relationship with large affiliates…
Joe
November 29th, 2008 2:02 am
The lack of real-time tracking is also very annoying — with the resources Amazon has you would think they would have the most cutting-edge affiliate program software around…instead, it’s one of the oldest and clunkiest you could ever imagine…
Tejvan Pettinger
November 29th, 2008 2:11 am
I agree. Based in the UK. I opt for certificates. I once got a check but lost 20% in cashing an American check.
I once asked if I could integrate my .com affiliates and .co.uk affiliates account but they never reply.
The very low commision, means I don’t really put too much into amazon. We may be small fry, but, if they ignore us too much it doesn’t represent good business practise for long run
Brandon J. Mendelson
November 29th, 2008 2:11 am
It’s funny, even on the highest end of the spectrum with Amazon (attempting to speak with their marketing people about sponsorships), it is difficult to speak with an actual person.
When you do … they’re not very helpful …
Hopefully they will wake up to this before a competitor steps up.
Normal Joe
November 29th, 2008 2:14 am
Darren,
I just started messing around with the amazon associates program. I do hope to get some nice commissions, and I don’t have to wait to cash, (i’m in the US) but that sucks for my overseas buddies!
I really can’t believe someone who has been around as long as them doesn’t have the ability to direct deposit non US payments.
Bradly Fletchall
November 29th, 2008 2:33 am
The thing with them using paypal is that they directly compete with Ebay and Ebay owns PayPal. Ever sense Amazon started letting everyone sell used items they have been eating into Ebay’s proffits hand over fist.
I would be willing to bet Amazon will never use PayPal for this simple reason.
They should be able to come up with another system though to make payments better for their international affiliates.
Hands off is a good modile though. I think we all wish we could get others to sell for us and automate the process so we just sit back and watch the cash roll in. If they had account managers they would ahve to pay them and that costs money. If I was an executive with Amazon I wouldn’t change much of the program either.
Unless there is a large outcry of complaints from international affiliates, I doubt they will do anything about this at all. To change the system will cost them money…so unless they stand to loose more than it would cost to change the payment options they wont. Its just business.
Family Vacation Central
November 29th, 2008 2:33 am
I have been a member of the Amazon Affiliate program for many years and each month I get gift certificate to apply to my account so my wife can buy books.
Actually the percent that is paid out as a commission is really low so I do not put any energy into promoting Amazon products as I do not believe that it is really worth the effort.
I know that Darren has the traffic to allow it to convert but as we all know the screen real estate is very critical in your monetizing process and unless I am doing a book review I am not sure that I would want to dedicate banner space to Amazon.
BloggerSavvy
November 29th, 2008 2:55 am
While I am by no means large (I’m not even on the horizon with my new blog), I think one “hidden” aspect of this issue is something that perhaps Amazon might not have anticipated? I’ve read a bit about affiliate experiences, both positive and negative. I decided not to participate in the Amazon affiliate program (for any of the blogs and sites I control), primarily motivated by some of the things I’ve read. The comment from “Bradly Fletchall” suggests “…unless they stand to loose more than it would cost to change the payment options…” is a good point, but I think they need to focus on what they could be making, how their profits could increase if updating their system. All too often business operators don’t sit and evaluate some of the hidden markets they could tap into. Improving their program to address the issues ProBlogger has made might help to garner them more affiliates (and sales) than thought. Additionally, a German study found that “54% of blog visitors formulate their opinions about products and companies from blogs.” That’s a significant number!
Debo Hobo
November 29th, 2008 2:56 am
Thank you for addressing this issue. When I twittered you about the issue when I tried to order your book, I had thought you could care less, but I am glad to see I was wrong.
Great letter! :)
Hyder
November 29th, 2008 3:04 am
Highly doubt they will give a hoot about this. Even if you stop being their affiliate they would not feel a dent. They’re just too big.
Yes, it’s crappy. But true.
…maybe if they started amazon.com.au perhaps they might offer direct deposits to purchases made on that site. But then you would have a considerably smaller audience.
James Chartrand - Men with Pens
November 29th, 2008 3:15 am
Right on, Darren. As a Canadian, I am consistently frustrated with this “international” virtual world that caters to mainly U.S. consumers and sellers.
I deal, I cope, and I mutter to myself in private that other people exist and help support those business whom we deal with.
Thanks for saying out loud what I think many people in other countries want to say as well. I certainly appreciate it, for one.
5starAffiliatePrograms
November 29th, 2008 3:40 am
Great post Darren, I hope they see it and take note.
They should with those numbers.
I’ll twitter this too.
Linda Buquet
17 year old blogger-Oke Timothy
November 29th, 2008 4:00 am
Kudos to you Darren! As much as I am concern I really believe that Amazon has made the name and that is why customer service to them really might be a problem to them or that they have so much affiliates that it is difficult to really provide their affiliate with what they need. The lesson in this piece is not for Amazon but for affiliate or merchants who has been able to generate enough affiliate market force to market their product. Under no circumstances should you leave your affiliate stranded because you have made name. Remember that they brought you where you are because of their hard work and so you can not just behave as if you now have nothing at stake. They brought you there in the first place so care of them! Thanks so much. Oke Timothy. Affiliate Marketer
Simon Gould
November 29th, 2008 4:11 am
And yet Amazon was probably the first ever online affiliate pogram, talk about going backwards.
They invest loads in different ways of promoting their products but won’t invest a penny in a simple international direct deposit for their affiliates
Rahul
November 29th, 2008 4:26 am
Darren, you’ve always been direct and to the point if you had any issues with your affiliated programs. I hope the affiliate programs do some change for the non US affiliates and there is less or hassle free transactions to be made.
Rahul
November 29th, 2008 4:27 am
Darren, you’ve always been direct and to the point if you had any issues with your affiliated programs. I hope the affiliate programs do some change for the non US affiliates and there is less or hassle free transactions to be made.
Hope Amazon does something abt this and soon.
cheers.
Melissa's Cozy Teacup
November 29th, 2008 4:34 am
With so many sites being hacked these days do you really think it is safe to give your ssn to affiliates programs? I’m hesitant to do so.
Ben
November 29th, 2008 5:00 am
Darren,
Next trip to the states, why don’t you stop at a bank and set-up an account. Then you can have Amazon deposit directly into your US account. You can then either wire transfer or better yet, get the debit card card and use it.
Just a suggestion.
Ron
November 29th, 2008 5:19 am
Wow Darren nice letter and even more impressive stats! Congrats.
At the measly 1%+ Amazon pays associates your numbers rock!
Keep us informed of the outcome please.
Foodeater
November 29th, 2008 5:54 am
One thing I didn’t notice you mention but which is a big problem for me are the bank fees involved. I’m in the USA and offer Amazon affiliate links for both USA and UK. When I get the checks from the UK the wait time isn’t really an issue for me but the bank fees are.
In order for my bank to cash the check from pounds to dollars they will charge me something upwards of 25%. I don’t make anywhere near the amount of sales you do, so it ends up not being even worth it anymore to get paid in money, now I just take the UK gift certificates. Even with the small amounts of sales I do make, as you mentioned, I’m running out of things I want to buy! Plus I feel stupid ordering and paying to ship items from the UK that I could easily buy here for less (because I wouldn’t have to pay the high shipping).
Paypal or some similar type of service (while it would still take a percentage of the total amount paid) would be much better as at least it wouldn’t be taking a whole 25% or more out of my earnings.
Ken Burgin
November 29th, 2008 6:33 am
Great letter - thanks for supporting us all. Google manages to get the money directly into my Australian bank account with no problems - time for Amazon to do the same!
Enrique
November 29th, 2008 6:36 am
You talk about delay in cashing the checks. If that was a problem!
I got a 5k check stolen and cashed. It took me several months and a lot of paperwork to prove the issue and have it cut again.
Not to mention when they sent a 36k check (my all time best) to a wrong addres (not their fault, though). It was a long wait until they received it back and send it again.
In some countries regular mail is very insecure. Most thieves know how to spot an Amazon check and steal it.
You can´t even hire a mail forwarding system because you can´t use an US mailbox in your account if you live outside.
I spent endless hours by mail and phone with no luck trying to solve this issue.
Now my business has changed and I only earn less than $50 per month and chose GIFT CERTIFICATE as payment method. Which I spend on books only.
Robin Ferrier
November 29th, 2008 7:49 am
Yeah Amazon, get with the program!!! Knowing how poorly you treat Darren makes me not want to visit your site this Holiday Season… I’m sure I’m not the only one. Do the right thing and pay this guy on a timely basis!!
PuReWebDev
November 29th, 2008 8:39 am
Strategically, I don’t know if Amazon would want to use PayPal to make payments because it would directly help who it sees as it’s largest competitor, eBay. On the other hand, they could offer international direct deposit, especially for larger associates like yourself. I salute you on your success with the associates program. I’ve been using it for a few years myself, and have basically been very impressed and satisfied with how fun and easy it is to make money with it.
ThemeGrrl
November 29th, 2008 9:15 am
Well said Darren! I’m in Australia too and have not bothered with the Amazon affiliate program with any of my sites due to their cumbersome payment methods for those outside America.
Bob Nolin
November 29th, 2008 9:50 am
Darren, I’m afraid I’m with Jim Fitzsimmons on this one. A few years ago, according to your own book, you were thrilled to see a few bucks come in from blogging. Now you complain (and take up a whole article to do it) about having to wait for your $2000-3000 checks, and whine that Amazon’s 70 grand has merely “put a dent in your mortgage.” Most of your readers would be thrilled to make a fraction of that from their blogs, especially in this economy, the worst in 70 years. I think anyone who is lucky enough to work from home, no matter how little they’re making, should consider themselves extremely fortunate. The fact that you’re so bent out of shape about not having Amazon pay you more attention tells me you really don’t have any idea how lucky you are. Perhaps you should read the intro to your book again, remember where you come from. You may be back there soon, the way things are going.
Cheers -
Bob
mike
November 29th, 2008 9:59 am
I like the Amazon program. I never had a problem with it. I hope they can make things easier for you Darren.
Anjay
November 29th, 2008 9:59 am
Maybe Amazon can setup a payment system to rival PayPal. They have ventured into other avenues such Alexa.com
infmom
November 29th, 2008 10:31 am
I dunno, I can’t work myself up too much over this because in two years of dutifully posting their ads and changing their banners on three web sites I have yet to receive one dime in any form of currencey whatsoever.
finola
November 29th, 2008 10:51 am
Wow. I thought we were more alone in this dilemma in the Caribbean. I’ve been researching this as part of a post I’m putting together on e-commerce in the caribbean.
With us, no matter how big or small the cheque, it takes 6 weeks to clear, the fees are fine, just the time. We also can only use a few online payment systems - paypal doesn’t work here because of our banking regulations - we’re so backward.
We also suffer the stolen cheques - there’s so much opportunity but so much frustration you have to be prepared for also in the great web.
It was interesting reading the comments on this one also - a good overall idea of different ways people deal with the issue.
Grant Northsby
November 29th, 2008 10:53 am
I completely agree. In fact it is this issue that is making me strongly consider switching my affiliate marketing efforts to other online stores. Since earning $3000+ a month the checks have become difficult to cash here also. I’m also frustrated that despite having referred $2 million of business to Amazon over the last 3 years that I have only earned an average of 4.1% commission (similar to you I see). I know they have small margins on consumer electronics but I would have expected that as publisher who sends that kind of business that there would be some kind of ‘tiered’ system in place beyond 4% no matter what you generate in sales.
I’ve had offers by other online stores to better 4% on electronics (they’re offering up to 6-7%) and while I’ve stayed with Amazon based upon their name and trust with readers I’m at a point that I’m probably going to switch. I’m losing money, the admin of banking and tracking checks is taking up time and energy and the lack of any kind of personal touch frustrates me.
So consider this me adding my ’signature’ to your petition/letter to Amazon.
Darren Rowse
November 29th, 2008 11:32 am
Bob Nolin and Jim Fitzsimmons - please don’t hear me as not appreciating the income that Amazon has brought me. I mentioned that I do a couple of times in the post (and when I said it’d put a dent in my mortgage I was mean it’s been a big help - perhaps I should have said ’significant dent’). There’s nothing insignificant about $70k, even spread over the five years that I’ve earned it). It’s been a growing part of my income and I do value the Amazon program - but just because it’s been good to me doesn’t mean it can’t improve.
Part of my motivation for this post is the hope that it might spur Amazon on to improve what they offer web publishers, particularly those not living in the US.
I’m not bent out of shape (and I tried to highlight my appreciation for Amazon in my post) - I simply would love Amazon to catch up to their competition and consider paying those of us living outside of the US in the same way that other programs do.
J. D. Ebberly
November 29th, 2008 12:19 pm
You deserve nothing but kudos, Darren, for all of your hard work and devotion to your fine audience.
I hope that Amazon starts paying a lot more attention to its associates and gets this straightened out.
You shouldn’t have to wait three whole months to receive your hard-earned money.
Have an excellent day!
Jay | Wealthy Affiliate Insider
November 29th, 2008 12:29 pm
Although, I don’t use Amazon, I’m from a Caribbean island and that means I cant even get international direct deposit cause most networks just deal with the bigger countries like UK, Canada, Australia etc.
I feel your pain and commend you for writing Amazon on behalf of affiliates overseas.
Martin
November 29th, 2008 12:59 pm
I’ve had similar issues with other sources of US$ income in the past. Australian banks like to charge excessive fees to process US$ cheques, with most banks charging about AUD$50 per cheque!
Thankfully, I now receive my income from this other source via direct deposit, but your post is making me think twice about signing up with Amazon’s affiliate program…
tim
November 29th, 2008 2:06 pm
Just curious, is this letter after repeated attempts to contact them without a response?
I would probably like a little more attention after making over $1 million for them!
graphic design brisbane
November 29th, 2008 2:10 pm
Truely amazed by amazons lack of business ettiquette, but as someone has already said large corporatation are simpily greedy, and while I don’t believe you are in their small fish category they simply earn too much to care.
doug morris
November 29th, 2008 2:42 pm
Being that I’m from the US I don’t experience the same payment problem but I do sympathize.
However, I am an associate or compared to Darren’s staggering figures, a micro-associate. I deal with just a few networks since my niche isn’t that big. I don’t bring any of my networks the kind of money Darren is bringing to the table and I get some kinda personal attention. I never paid much mind that i don’t get any from Amazon since my numbers there are not that big.
I have to say that I’m appalled at the lack of personal attention that Amazon shows someone that has sent them $1.5M in business. Either they are rather rude or they deal with a lot more people that bring in a lot more money. It is most likely not the later.
DeeJay
November 29th, 2008 2:53 pm
Big corporations are like turtles when we talk about changing something from the root.
That’s the case with Amazon and their payment system, too.
Or maybe they don’t want to change it?
Think why? ;)
Hank
November 29th, 2008 4:29 pm
Well said and lesson well taken.
Thanks
Sangesh
November 29th, 2008 5:10 pm
I do agree with DeeJay about what he is saying. Big companies are sort of like bullies. But let’s hope Amazon is an exception.
Arebos (indobloger)
November 29th, 2008 7:13 pm
Congratulation for your earning with Amazon, Darren.
My experience being affiliate with Amazon is frustated because no single sale I made. So, I never received check payment from them.
Another check that I ever received is from Google, which can be cleared one month from the day I bank it, here from Indonesia.
PC
November 29th, 2008 7:19 pm
You echoed the thoughts of a lot of Indian Bloggers. I wish they could issue a cheque in local currencies like Adsense.
Lenin Nair
November 29th, 2008 8:12 pm
Wow, an open letter indeed. But Darren, you have friends in the US right. Maybe try to start a US virtual bank account like the Payoneer and try to cash the money directly to your payoneer mastercard. It takes 24 hours flat.
Darren Rowse
November 29th, 2008 8:51 pm
Lenin (and others who say to open a US account). To get paid into a US account you also have to have a U.S. tax ID number or a Social Security number so unfortunately that counts me out unless I want to completely transfer my account to someone else.
LintCollector
November 30th, 2008 1:32 am
Adbrite also only pay by cheque to Australia. They just sent me a cheque for US$10.22 - this converts to around A$15, which is the same as what my bank would charge me to deposit it (after a 6 week delay). I’ll be keeping the worthless cheque as a souvenir of the Adbrite account I no longer bother with.
Another problem with receiving US mail arises if you live in Western Australia, which has the same state abbreviation as Washington (WA). I’ve had mail not arrive, or take months to get here, which puzzed me. The mystery was solved when one turned up with writing on the envelope that showed it had been redirected after going to Washington by mistake. It seems the US postal service also lack awareness of the world beyond their shores.
Chris
November 30th, 2008 3:53 am
I completely agree with you. My policy now is to primarily concentrate on affiliates who offer payment by paypal or bank transfer. Cheques are an outdated form of payment in this day and age. Why cant amazon get their act together?
Vivian Zabel
November 30th, 2008 4:19 am
I won’t feel so bad now that I see how little personal service you receive from Amazon with the amount of business you send their way. No wonder I don’t with my tiny bit of business (accordingly) since we’re about the newest kid on the block.
I hope you let us know if anything changes.
Vivian
http://twitter.com/VivianZabel
James
November 30th, 2008 4:57 am
Actually Darren, I’m a UK citizen and have a Citibank checking and savings account with a debit card (I spend 2-3 months of the year here for work).
I don’t have an SSN and I’m only a ‘visitor on business’. My account requires me to maintain a balance of over $1500 at all times.
James
westpenninewoman
November 30th, 2008 8:14 am
Wow! That’s a serious amount of business you’ve done with Amazon. They pay such a low commission rate I didn’t think it was possible
Adsneeze
November 30th, 2008 8:29 am
amazon don’t give a damn on the publisher. they are really annoying an ignore a large market (blogger market). any small medium blogger has his money in max 45days, but amazon is really sloppy. I really recommend anything else.
Papa Razzi
November 30th, 2008 9:24 am
Wow, that’s. I’m signed up with amazon also but so far I’ve only made $1.33 from them by two books sold. Would be nice to make 2-3k a month from them.
I’m sort of lucky because anyone typing ‘paparazzi equipment’ into yahoo will have my site come up as #1 and in google it’ll come up in the second page.
I think its because nobody has ever made a blog about paparazzi or about the equipment they use. So any traffic from that search that gets to my site instantly goes to a page that has all the equipment that I use and their links to amazon where people can buy camera equipment.
David Johnson
November 30th, 2008 9:25 am
very well thought out letter, have you in fact sent it to them or are you hoping they see it on here?
Glenn
November 30th, 2008 3:28 pm
Be thankful you don’t need tech support from them. I find, as with banks, that you’re OK unless you have to deal with the humans there. Also, I would mention that their affil banner ads are mostly ugly and years old. On the plus side, they’ve made some upgrades to the linking process and widgets that seem pretty good.
Michael Henry
November 30th, 2008 3:44 pm
You could always take the certificates and buy up all the trinkets and sell them locally. Clicks to bricks.
Breakaway
November 30th, 2008 3:53 pm
I am from the US, and receive direct deposit… but i share your frustrations with other affiliate programs. When I receive a check from Canada over $100, they take out a huge fee, and it takes like 6 weeks to process…. I live in Sacramento and it’s not a great place for international finance apparently.
I hope a letter from someone like you may spur Amazon to open up the opportunity to be paid be direct deposit.
Miss Xu
December 1st, 2008 12:14 am
Hey Darren -
I just happened to stumble upon your post. As someone that spends well, 343 or so days abroad, I totally feel your pain. One thing that’s helped for me is sign up with a bank that has a local and Australia presence. Typically if you are a premier level in one country, you get reciprocal benefits in any other country. I would NOT however recommend HSBC. They have left me stranded without access to funds for over a month (and I happen to be in China).
Just a stopgap solution in the event that you need one. Something tells me that Amazon is not going to be budging any time too soon.
My angst over hsbc -> http://tinyurl.com/5vx2bm
Oh, and another thing. Traditionally, I’ve not found American companies to be stellar with non US services / products. The exceptions likely being FMCG companies like P+G and Coke.
Best of luck!
Debo Hobo
December 1st, 2008 1:26 am
Okay you can transfer your account to me. I live in the US, I’ll take a small cut of course, let’s say 80% and send you the rest.
Sound like a deal? It would be a burden for me but I’m willing to make the sacrifice after all you do offer all this great blogging info for free so its the least I could do.
Kind of a win win for both of us…
LOL ;)
TopToys
December 1st, 2008 1:49 am
Firstly fantastic earnings and well done. Being relatively new to affiliate marketing and only having done Amazon for less than one month i am still learning about the flaws in the amazon system but being based in the UK have to date refrained from joning the non UK affiliate schemes for the reasons you mention. It seems very strange with the internet being global that we need to register with each Amazon scheme rather than just having one global id and that amazon can’t make the payments as simple as say google does with the adsense scheme.
domainpubber
December 1st, 2008 4:11 am
Amazon is REALLY missing the boat by not assigning AMs to their top associates. Its purely bad management on their part. I use their Create Space, Web Store, Fulfillment by Amazon and Associate programs and its a complete nightmare trying to get assistance since they have no consultants or humans that know all their merchant programs and systems cohesively or that you can actually get on the phone!!! Hopefully management will figure this out and make some corrections one of these days; then they actually might become the Powerhouse of affiliate programs. Maybe I should apply for the job since I seem to be the only person I know who uses ALL of Amazon’s merchant programs together ;-)
Ark Lady
December 1st, 2008 4:34 am
Funny, I just took a survey from Amazon and conveyed my disappointment in their affiliate program as compared to my earlier experiences with them.
As a USA affiliate I don’t face the same challenges as you do but I have not enjoyed the changes they have made to their percentage changes.
I hope that you too were able to take the survey and express your concerns there as well.
David Allen
December 1st, 2008 8:49 am
I agree with you Darren and about time someone reminded Amazon that the internet is international and that there are perfectly good international payment systems.
I get paid by Paypal for other things and also get paid with bank transfer.
I did get a payment from another affiliate system that would have cost me money if I had put it in the bank, aside from the fact that the bank would still take just over a month to process a cheque from the US.
CMD
December 1st, 2008 12:08 pm
.
I am interested in knowing if affiliates have more to say about the specific payment processors or systems that appeal to them?
Our site (which would be grateful to see some of you super-affiliates around once we launch - that’s all of you) offers two payment processors PayPal and AlertPay. But is that enough?
Will check back: & thx
jay
December 1st, 2008 2:23 pm
Maybe Amazon should consider using Western Union just like Google
uwak
December 1st, 2008 8:46 pm
amazon with plus and minus…..wow, you create big money from amazon
Grace @ Sandier Pastures
December 1st, 2008 8:55 pm
I can’t believe a company as big as Amazon don’t use Paypal. I might have to remove their affiliate links in my site. I live outside of the US so payment would likely suck for me too. (I didn’t read the payment guidelines well when I signed up)
Lorna
December 1st, 2008 11:05 pm
This post makes me rethink about using Amazon.com affiliates program. Granted, I’m not earning anything from them yet, but it’s better to realize it now than to regret it later.
Ajay
December 1st, 2008 11:10 pm
Here here Darren,
Like you I am an Aussie Associate that gets paid monthly. My cheques vary between one and two thousand a month and I must say that having to go to the bank each month (the same bank each time) and have to explain that the cheque is in USD which is not clearly stated on the cheque itself, then to have to pay the foreign exchange fee (with bankwest at least) it gets very monotonous.
Why cant Amazon get with the times and offer it’s international affiliates wire transfer or at least do what CJ do and route it through Australian banks whereby its issued in AUD. CJ is great for Cheque payments but Amazon is really starting to shite me!
Your right too, pushing hundreds of thousands of dollars in product sales, you would at least expect a hello call or free mousepad every now and then. Goes to show how small we really must be.
paul
December 2nd, 2008 12:18 am
Well, I guess it will take a blogging and affiliate giant like Darren to spark changes to the system. If they don’t listen to such feedback, it is hard to imagine them making changes for less successful affiliates.
Clint Dixon
December 2nd, 2008 1:03 am
You have got to be kidding……you should have enough money that you don’t need to worry that Amazon sends payments that take so long to process.
Plus you should be getting checks monthly by now so your checks should be clearing monthly albeit not as perfect as one could want.
Life could be a whole lot worse Darrin…remember your luck,,
Ben
December 2nd, 2008 4:05 am
Wait…you mean some people make money with Amazon? ;) I’ve only earned enough to buy a cup of coffee, and that took two years…
goes to show that different tactics work for different blogs.
Kholid
December 2nd, 2008 2:42 pm
I agree with you Darren, maybe I’ll become more motivated, if Amazon gives an alternatives of payment such as Paypal. Currently I make enough money from selling Amazon items. I hope Amazon teams read this post.
Alister Cameron // Blogologist
December 2nd, 2008 6:37 pm
Jeff Bezos called you yet?
Just wondering. If I was him I would.
Or is he above such a sensible response?
-Alister
Emir
December 2nd, 2008 6:47 pm
Darren, I would start a US company to receive money, and use it for US business activities. Adsense, servers etc.. With a US based company you get US bank account, merchant account and so on..
You can pay taxes or wait for 3 months to receive the money. $3000 now and $3000 in 3 months is not same, if you receive it “now” you’ll probably turn that into say $4000 in 3 months…even with the costs of having a US company…
Anyway, best of luck.
Emir
Dollars
December 10th, 2008 4:55 am
I was working as a freelance journalist for over 10 years and I also had to wait 3 months for my money. However, it was not $ 3,000.
I think you should not have written this post.
And I wish the comments on this website would be restricted to people who have something to say about the topic, instead of just saying how right and fantastic you are, for the sole purpose of linking their blog.
Get Real
December 25th, 2008 9:00 am
Get real to the bozos that kept saying “you are lucky to work from home.”
Luck had nothing to do with it.
He made sacrifices and worked to build his business and that’s what got him there.
He earned the money and sent the sales so he shouldn’t have to wait more than a month to get…
his money.
Let’s reiterate that.
His money.
That’s over a million dollars Amazon would NOT have
if he didn’t send it to them.
You are saying he’s “lucky to be working from home”?
Get a clue.
It takes boldness to not just be neurologically programmed
by the philosophy of the mediocre masses
and actually create wealth running your own business.
Especially online given the ignorant detractors to which it seems you’re carrying your membership card.
Do something original.
Start a business of your own.
NO wait, that would require you thinking for yourself.
Just don’t call entrepreneurs “lucky” about anything.
Without entrepreneurs you wouldn’t have a job to put your trust in or complain about.
The Real Deal
January 2nd, 2009 2:16 am
Firstly, yes to what “Get Real” said above.
I was Googling around looking for info on Amazon affiliate schemes and trying to work out if I should take a UK or a US one, etc. Also doing my due diligence on payment methods etc. I found this topic.
Most informative; Thank you. This site isnow my reading this evening!
Manuel
February 2nd, 2009 12:51 pm
Nice try. I stopped promoting Amazon a while ago. I think their comission (electronics for example) is way to low. I remember that I sold a couple of plasma tvs for around $10k and ended up with a $50 comission…
Patzz
February 7th, 2009 11:25 pm
Daran I had bit confusing about placing choosing amazon or ebay to my site, I choose amazon thanks You mention you’re a small fish at amazon but for me you’re the biggest one their thanks this is really worth
agoeng
March 5th, 2009 12:43 pm
Thank you for represent us for complain to Amazon, it was really so sad that should wait for long time to clearance the check from Amazon. Me in Indonesia also feel the same problem.
Hope they change the way to pay. Western Union or Paypal could be the best one in this matter.
Regards Indonesian Publisher
German
June 18th, 2009 10:27 am
I have a very popular site which ranks within first100K and O get similar amountsin Google payments, bt I only make $5 to $15 a month from Amazon. So, Darren must either own TOP 10 site or be extremely lucky. I believe Amazon pays too little and their website is very user-unfriendly and fails a lot. For instance I was unable to update my address, so I simply closed all the associate accounts keeping just one and using it for all my sites. It will simplify things and hopefully at least this one account will work! I really want to see some competition to Amazon affiliate program.
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